The Alchemy of Inclusion with Disney’s Carmen Smith

1 Apr , 2021 podcasts

 

Now, more than ever, the world has realized how important it is to enrich relationships, build communities, and move towards a collective goal. And one of the most notable objectives of humanity these days is to harness the magic of diversity and inclusion. How can we adapt to such a setting in today’s struggling society? Joining Katherine Twells is Carmen Smith, sharing how they promote a diverse and equal culture at Disney by nurturing creativity, providing an immersive experience, and taking advantage of the lessons imparted by their film The Princess and the Frog. She also talks about how embracing vulnerability can lead to effective leadership, an important element in connecting people and breaking down barriers.

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Listen to the podcast here:

The Alchemy of Inclusion with Disney’s Carmen Smith

Stories Of Creativity And Togetherness

It is with great pleasure that I share with you a conversation with a truly remarkable leader, Carmen Smith. She is the Vice President of Creative Development at Walt Disney Imagineering. I have quite a bit to tell you about her incredible career. At Walt Disney Imagineering, she is responsible for developing a diverse pipeline of people to enhance Imagineering’s consultant talent and creative processes. Her four areas of primary emphasis are creative product and services development, talent identification, editorial participation in the creative process and the establishment of external partnerships to enhance product relevance in the diverse global marketplace. Several years ago, Carmen spearheaded the IDEATION Summit. This event was conceived around the absolute conviction that diversity of people, ideas and practices is a fundamental driver of creativity and innovation for all organizations.

This IDEATION Summit in 2015 alone hosted more than 79 sessions over 135 speakers for approximately 2,100 employees. Prior to joining Walt Disney Imagineering, Carmen served as Vice President of Global Strategies for Diversity and Inclusion for Walt Disney Parks and Resorts. She also served as the Vice President of the Talent Development Programs for the Disney/ABC Television Group. She has received numerous awards and accolades, including several prestigious honors for her work, promoting diversification in the television and film industry.

In 2007, she received an Honorary Doctorate from the Metropolitan College of New York and was also a presenter at the United Nations’ 4th Non-Governmental Forum on Women hosted in Beijing, China. Carmen is a native of New York, graduated from Hunter College and received her Master’s from New York University. She is a force-for-good in the world. She is generous with her insight to help us all see the world through the eyes of unity, knowing that through diversity and imagination, we can all create a powerful future together. I hope you will enjoy the conversation with the wise Carmen Smith.

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Carmen, I am so pleased to have you on the show. Thank you so much for taking the time.

With every event in life that may be negative, there's always positive in it as well. Share on X

Katherine, thank you for inviting me.

Origin Story

It’s going to be a great conversation. I know it already. I begin every show with this question, but what I would love to have you share with us is a little bit about your origin story. Tell us about your journey. How did you get to where you are now?

It started at seven when I started producing shows for my family. I make curtains from sheets, have my sister on the organ, my brother on the drums, we’d have the opening music, we’d have closing music, some dancing, and entertainment in between. It started at an early age. If I move forward, I’ve been with Disney for many years. I started at WABC-Television in New York in the early 1980s. I’ve worked both in New York and in California. I’ve been a producer on a wide variety of programming, documentary, sports, news and entertainment. I’ve always approached the work through the lens of relevancy and inclusion, regardless of the stories that I was telling. I brought that philosophy to Walt Disney Imagineering several years ago. Imagineering is this creative force that imagines, designs, and builds all of Disney theme parks, hotels, attractions and cruise ships.

Carmen, when I think about you at seven, I’m always amazed when you go back and you look at yourself as a child, how much the seeds of what your passions are going to become out. At that young age, you knew that you wanted to be a creator. Here you are now doing all this amazing creativity and leading such an important conversation with diversity, inclusion, and how our voices need to come together.

One of my early influences was Diahann Carroll. When I saw her show and to see someone that looked like me and her son Corey, that planted the seed. When I saw myself, I realized that, “She’s in that screen. How did she get there? Who made that happen?” That began my curiosity about shows and how they’re created.

 

Vulnerability And Leadership

In seeing those role models, it’s so important for us as we’re developing to see that come to life. It’s an inspiration for us on our own journey. Let’s talk a little bit about leadership. We’re going to cover so many wonderful topics in this conversation. You’re an amazing leader. I want to talk about the power of vulnerability and leadership because we have come off of the craziest, most challenging time with this pandemic in 2020. Many things happen from the pandemic to all the dynamics with social justice to the challenges of our personal lives. How do you think about vulnerability with all of this? How do we inspire people when we’re going through this collective adversity? The leaders are going through the same adversity as the people that they lead. How do you think about this?

When I think about 2020, it’s a year that will never be forgotten, both the pandemic and looking at the heightened awareness around race and culture in America as a result of the world being in the same place and watching the horrific murder of George Floyd. Back to the pandemic, it’s been taxing on all of us personally. From a business standpoint, several of our businesses were severely impacted by it. Even with that, all those events that were happening, George Floyd, race relations, a pandemic heightened our awareness of how important it is to think about culture, to think about diversity, but also being prepared, although it’s almost impossible, but for the unexpected, because it presented us in a way where no one had answers in terms of how we move forward.

Vulnerability, transparency, and having that as part of your leadership skill is important. What it does is it allows a leader to say, “I don’t have all the answers, but let’s see if we can work this together.” It brings a sense of comradery and inclusiveness in that way. When we feel comfortable enough or self-assured that being transparent where you may show fear or you may show the fact that this is new territory for me. All those things are okay because it helps people to realize that they’re not alone.

Knowing you’re not alone now has always been important, but now more than ever, because when you do have shared adversity, you have to know that you can link arms with other people and they’re there for you. I know that as we’ve navigated all of the things that you articulated, it has been about an opportunity for us to be humble in looking ourselves in the mirror and saying, “We don’t have answers. We need to look deep inside about who we are, how we’re living and how we’re interacting with each other to shape a different world. Make new changes.” It’s been a wake-up call in so many ways.

We have to leave behind creative sessions that aren't inclusive. Share on X

It allowed many of us to grow in new ways because when you have to test yourself or when you realize that you’ve got incredible people around you and that everyone’s voice is important, it allows people to share their thinking. With every event in life that may be negative, there’s always positive in it as well. There’s been tremendous growth through this journey that we’ve been through in the year 2020 going into 2021.

I would love that easy times create growth but unfortunately, in our business and personal lives, when the challenging times come that we learn what we need to learn and we can grow and change from that. It’s an important part of our development as individuals and as the collective. We’re talking about leaders and you work for this incredible brand called Disney. It is so near and dear to the hearts of so many people. Everyone has their Disney story. I meet people and they always have their Coke story and then people have their Disney story. There’s so much to say about this brand. As you’ve looked at the Disney organization, how has the organization adapted with theme parks being closed, all of us here and all the changes?

Because people come to our parks, they feel a sense of safety. It’s a place where you feel you can be yourself, let your guard down, laugh, run, jump, and skip, all those things, we have to rethink. For us, one of the first areas when we looked at this pandemic and how we could bring our guests back into some of our environments, we’ve worked in close coordination with government agencies and with guidance from health authorities. We’ve been able to welcome our guests back into several of our parks. Those that have reopened are mostly running at a limited capacity so that we can manage things like social distancing. We’ve instituted protocols such as enhanced cleaning practices along with monitoring our guests for proper mask-wearing.

We feel we’ve created a safe environment for people to bring their families and to have fun. Since we can’t run our attractions and shows that require people to gather closely such as theaters and fireworks, we’ve come up with some creative substitutions. For example, guests love to meet our characters up close and personal. Since that’s not possible right now, we have created alternatives such as character procession so that people can still see Mickey Mouse and their favorite princesses during their visit. Disney is a brand that so many people hold close their hearts. We’re thrilled about that. We can still provide ways for fans to get their Disney fix during this challenging time. We will continue to explore ways to enhance those experiences.

 

I am not surprised that the response is best in class. I grew up in Florida and as a Disney kid. My Disney story is my grandfather was fascinated by all things Disney and when Epcot was being built. I remember we’d go through Parks of the Caribbean, he’d be like, “Look at the hairs on the leg of the pirate, everything is so specific.” Everything is done in such a magnificent, beautiful fashion. It’s not surprising to me that in times of challenge, the Disney brand would come back with that same level of diligence, making sure everything stays special and finding creative ways to work around the challenge. It’s amazing to watch that. Thank you.

For all of us, especially those who work at Walt Disney Imagineering, the fact that we wake up every morning and our job is how are we going to bring joy and happiness to our guests with what we create. For our colleagues, our operators in the park, all of us, it is almost like service in trying to make the world a better place even in these times of great stress, anxiety and change.

Letting Go

We need it now more than ever. I know both of our brands are about happiness. Don’t we all want that in the time that we’ve all been going through? Thank you for sharing your thoughts on that, Carmen. I want to return a little bit to this idea of growth and evolution that we’re going to be weaving in and out of in this conversation. We’ve had conversations over the years, I know you as someone who was so committed to growth and evolution both for yourself and for those you work with. You have a quote and you shared this quote with me in one of our video chats and I love it. I know it’s one of your favorite quotes by Richard Bach. The quote is, “Don’t be dismayed at goodbyes. A farewell is necessary before you can meet again. Meeting again after moments or lifetimes is certain for those who are friends.” We talked about how we’ve had to adapt to things. Sometimes, that means letting go of the old and welcoming in something new. That’s tough because a lot of times, we like to hold on to things. Carmen, what do you think we need to leave behind? What do you think we can create from this moment?

Leaving behind is always a challenge but leaving behind is a way of thinking that doesn’t allow for people of different generations, cultures, gender or sexual orientation. We have to leave behind creative sessions that aren’t inclusive. We have to look forward and make sure that in every room that we’re in where we’re thinking about a new idea, experience or a way forward, we have great representation that there is both an inclusive nature to the environment and that it represents diversity and equity too. This ties into the themes of relevancy and inclusion.

Effective leadership is so critical right now when there are so much uncertainty and turmoil in the world. Share on X

As we think about this, at Coca-Cola, we are passionately committed. James Quincey has come out publicly talking about our commitment to a new way of being in regard to celebrating the diversity of thinking from everyone because that is the power. As I think about our brand, we had the hilltop ad so many years ago where people from all over the world gathered together in unity. I’ve always thought about our brand as being one of unity. It’s something that we have got to continue to cultivate and welcome in.

As you think about 2020, we’ve been so separated from each other. We see each other on this video which, thank goodness, technology has allowed that, but it’s different than being together because there’s this idea of community. The CMO Summit has always been about community and coming together. How do you think about what we might appreciate as we can be together again and return to community? As we continue to talk about diversity and when we come back together, is that seed of everybody’s thoughts and ideas coming in to shape the new world so important? I know I asked you three questions in one but take whichever direction you want.

I’ll start off with when you talk about relevancy and inclusion, at Disney, almost everything we do is wrapped around stories. This is especially true at our theme parks where we invite guests to step into the three-dimensional worlds of our stories. They’re not just reading a book, watching a screen, or listening to a podcast, they’re in a physical space surrounded by their favorite characters in stories. Because this is such an immersive experience, we have to be careful to tell these stories in a meaningful way that appeals not just to a certain demographic but to as many people as possible. When we look at relevancy and inclusion, we have to ask the question, “What is the story that we’re trying to tell? What is the best way to tell the story? Even, should we be telling the story at all?”

I’ll give you a tiny example. There’s a ride at many of our theme parks around the world called Splash Mountain. It’s been around for decades and it’s one of our most beloved attractions. However, it was based on a 1946 Disney film called Song of the South. I don’t think we need to get into the theme of this movie, but it’s not appropriate by modern standards and quite honestly, it never was. We’ve known this was problematic for a while. Not only was the story we were telling not relevant to the audience now. It made many people feel uncomfortable and offended. It’s the exact opposite of inclusivity. We had to ask ourselves, “How do we update this popular ride to appeal to modern sensibilities so it can be enjoyed by everyone who experiences it?”

 

We found our answer in the 2009 Disney film, The Princess and the Frog, which features a strong black female lead named Tiana who works through several obstacles to make her dream come true. We’re hard at work updating Splash Mountain to feature a brand-new story about the continuing adventures of Tiana and her friends. I’m serving as Executive Producer on that. The people sitting around the table, you’ve got every walk of life and it crosses generations. We’ve brought in people which is something that’s important to us when you talk about relevancy and inclusion. We start our stories with research. Although the story may be fantastical, there’s also a real-world part of it. For us, it has been better understanding her environment in the 1920s and what it was like in New Orleans. From historians, the Smithsonian, to Dr. Johnnetta Cole who is an anthropologist, an archivist, former President of Spelman College, and the President of the National Council of Negro Women. We’ve had jazz historians and a slew of people. Not only do we have diversity around the table, but we also make sure we’re grounded. When it comes to relevancy and inclusion, it starts at the beginning.

You’ve literally reinvented the whole narrative of that ride. You’ve taken something that has this legacy and people love it, but you’re like, “We’ve got to leave behind a narrative that no longer makes sense anymore.” As I think about so many conversations that I’ve been in over the last year, it’s this raising of consciousness to understand on such a broader level than we ever did. It’s no longer an excuse to say, “I didn’t know.” It’s our responsibility to develop our minds and perspective over time. We have to do that as individuals, as humans, as leaders and as companies because we are setting the stage. We’re leading the way.

When I hear you talk, Katherine, I think about a famous quote from Dr. Martin Luther King about leadership during crisis. This is ad-libbing a little bit, “The ultimate measure of a man or a woman is not where he stands in the moment of comfort, but where he or she stands at times of challenge and controversy.” To your point, effective leadership is so critical right now when there is so much uncertainty and turmoil in the world.

Growth Mindset

As you talk about that beautiful quote, Carmen, I also think about how people often say challenge builds character, but I believe challenge reveals character. Your character is there and it shows up in these times. Let’s talk about the fact that we’re human, we fall down, and we fail. I know you’ve heard the term growth mindset. It’s Carol Dweck’s work about how do you have the type of mind that says, “I know that I can grow and learn.” It’s not a fixed mindset, it’s a growth mindset, but that involves sometimes experimenting, failing and that’s how we learn. How do you think about this courage? We’ve chatted a little bit about vulnerability, but this is like the courage to say, “I don’t know the answer.” I know in conversations with you in the past, we’ve talked about how you’ve been able to say, “I don’t know and then let’s figure it out together.” What are your thoughts on that?

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Vulnerability plays into authentic leadership for sure. Good leaders don’t just lead people but give others the opportunity to lead as well. There’s one of my favorite books by Simon Sinek and it says Leaders Eat Last. It’s about leaders being self-assured and confident. It’s recognizing that leaders aren’t going to have all the answers and that’s okay. If you are self-assured and confident in your mindset and skillset, you can say, “I don’t know but let’s figure that out together.”

We talked about perfectionism and how we’re all trying to manage ourselves. I often find, as a leader, that being perfect is the wrong thing to do because everyone wants to know that we are all humans. The way that we learn is sometimes failing and knowing that we can experiment and we can take wise risks. We want to be smart and wise, but we’re going to do that sometimes. It’s a new muscle as we keep talking about what we leave behind and what we welcome in. We’re welcoming in this new way of being that is not only about vulnerability which requires incredible strength. People think being vulnerable is weak and it requires courage to be vulnerable. As we talk about diversity and everything that’s changing, the saying, “I don’t know. Let’s figure it out together. Let’s come to the table together with open minds and open hearts to invent something beautiful that we can work with in the future.”

At Walt Disney Imagineering, we have instituted a series of programs that help to arm people with knowledge because we want people to feel that they have every opportunity to make the right decisions. What we found is when we set up the right environment and we’ve leveraged the Museum of Tolerance to be partners with us in that, we made it so that people felt it was okay to say, “I don’t know.” With that, it opens them up to receive so much more. It breaks down the barriers and guard rails that we put around us when you allow yourself to be vulnerable and to say I don’t know. You learn more that way.

Being Present

We’re sitting around the table together. Let’s think about the power to have present. I can tell you, whenever I have been in your presence, all of you is there. Your energy, heart, and mind is there. I feel like we’ve lived in this world of so much information overload. We have social media, there’s all the news coming at us and you’ve got your internal dynamics. I have to check between personal and professional, 7 or 8 different streams of data coming in. There’s no space to grieve and then to figure out what is born from that. How do you think we can find a better way to be present to each other in this learning environment we’ve been talking about?

 

I’m still trying to figure that out. It’s one of our greatest challenges. We are Zooming, most of us, thirteen hours a day. The TV is on. We want to know what’s happening in this world because we’re in our homes and we’re not experiencing the outside world. It’s a challenge. I have to ask you that question. What are you doing to keep balance in this new reality that we’re in?

We have these conversations at work a lot. I’m a dedicated meditator in the morning. I always spend time to be in silence. I spend time to ground myself on the day. I try to build into the day these breaks because we’re so addicted to productivity and feeling like we need to be producing something that we undervalue the opportunity to create the space in between. What that space does is refortify us or broaden our perspective about something we maybe didn’t see because we were flying down the highway at 100 miles an hour mentally. It’s not easy because some days, it doesn’t happen, but as leaders and as individuals, you don’t have to be a leader. Anyone reading, no matter what you do, who you are and where you live, being able to create space in your life is going to yield fruits in the future.

The one area where I do manage to create a space for myself is allowing some time to meditate to be still before I start my day. That helps my entire day. Although, it is difficult to have that balance, by starting your day with a moment of reflection, even if there’s an opportunity to recapitulate, think about what happened the day before, think about your responses to that, what worked, and what didn’t during those moments of quiet contemplation. It’s important to have that to start your day.

It’s a powerful practice. Sometimes, I will carve out some time as a ritual on Fridays to even revisit the week. One of the things that I talk a lot about internally at Coke is creating this compass narrative, which is determining your values. What are the values you hold dear? What are your principles? You check back like, “How did I do?” If one of my core values is always telling the truth to myself and others about the situation, how’d I do? All that time and reflection as we talk about all this opportunity to grow, growing through adversity, growing through all the dynamics. The reflection is the way that you integrate that growing.

Quiet contemplation plays a huge role in shaping your mindset and start your day strongly. Share on X

Keeping Eyes On The Horizon

We’re going to talk about growth and I want to dig in a little bit deeper with you, Carmen. While I will have shared your professional bio, there are things about you that you are an exquisite human. There are so many great things that you do. I want to share this about you and have you talk about it because you’re an adventurer. You want to grow through experience. You love learning. A lot of people don’t know you’re a student pilot. You’ve got all these ideas. You’re always inventing. We had a conversation one time and you shared this perspective because of your flying about keeping your eyes on the horizon. I remember when you shared that and I was so moved by it. I would love it if you would share that perspective again with our readers.

I am a student pilot, my landing after all these years, I have to do with the help of my instructor. My experience has blossomed because of him. My flight instructor is not only a great teacher, but he also has this amazing ability to drop gems of wisdom in casual conversation. As you shared, he once told me, “When you’re flying, keep your eyes on the horizon. You’ll know if you start to lose altitude and you can correct it.” It’s almost like trusting your instincts and your gut. He said, “If you look down and if you focus on all the instruments, you’re getting into the weeds, you’ll lose your way. Stay focused. You’ll get there.” It’s almost like how you realize that your entire being has all the information that you need if you pay attention. To me, when I fly, I get these life lessons. It’s unfortunate during this pandemic, I have not been able to fly probably in over a year but I think everyone should try it once.

It would be very exciting to do that but I love the way he talks about the horizon because I spoke about these compass values and the reflection. When I think about our decision centers, we have our head, heart and gut. Neuroscience has shown that we have neurotransmitters around our heart. Our brain is not the only thing processing the world. Our entire body is processing the world and this idea of looking at the horizon because the instruments represent all of these inputs and sometimes, we can get lost in over-analysis of things and get frozen because there’s so much information to process. To breathe, step back and see the horizon and to your beautiful advice, trust your instincts. We’ll all move forward with greater wisdom if we do that.

I want to close out this beautiful conversation with something broad. I always close out with this conversation with everyone and it’s because the people on this show have so much experience and wisdom to share. If you think about all your experiences and the people that you’ve interacted with over time, what do you think has been the most valuable thing that you’ve learned on your journey that you would share? It can be one thing or more than one, but whatever you want to share with our readers about what you’ve learned.

 

It has to be patience. Oftentimes when we have a goal in mind, we want it to happen immediately, but most of the time, it doesn’t and we have to learn that that’s okay. It’s okay to give things time so you can form a rationale. You can think it out and make adjustments as needed. When I think about patience, I think about a quote from my Maya Angelou, and she says, “Seek patience and passion in equal amounts. Patience alone will not build the temple. Passion alone will destroy its walls.” I’ve been on this planet for many years and been in this business for years. It’s almost like when you’re driving a car, your navigation has to recalibrate because there may be a detour, and you’re a little frustrated. Sometimes, on the detour, you see something new, it will get you to your destination, but maybe not the way you thought. It’s okay to be patient and to stand in it and not be afraid of it.

Carmen, you are giving me medicine for my soul. One of the things that keep coming up for me is patience in the process and trusting all things. Your words are so full of the wisdom of experience. I’m personally grateful and I’m quite sure that everyone reading is grateful for that insight as we all navigate this very dynamic and changing environment that we’re living in. I want to thank you for being the leader that you are, modeling the change we need to see in the world, sharing so generously with others your thoughts and always showing up with the best of who you are. I am grateful.

Thank you, Katherine, but I have to throw it back at you. You make the conversation easy. Your journey as a leader and how you guide people, I believe, is also a great reflection of the gold standard when it comes to leadership. I am honored and grateful that I have you both as a colleague and as a friend.

That means a great deal and you are uplifting as always. We both share the passionate commitment that it is our responsibility to show up as our highest and best even when we fail, even when we fall and are not perfect, but to show up with everything we have so that together we can move things forward. That’s what we’re here to do. Thank you again.

Important Links:

• Walt Disney Imagineering
• Carmen Smith – LinkedIn
• Leaders Eat Last

About Carmen Smith

At Walt Disney Imagineering, Carmen Smith is responsible for developing a diverse pipeline of people to enhance Imagineering’s consultant talent and its creative processes. Her four areas of primary emphasis are creative product and services development, talent identification (including casting talent to the full range of creative assignments), editorial participation in the creative process, and the establishment of external partnerships to enhance product relevance in the diverse global marketplace.

Five years ago, she spearheaded the IDEATION summit. The event was conceived around the conviction that diversity—of people, ideas, and practices—is a fundamental driver of creativity and innovation and a critical factor in the company’s ability to stay relevant. In 2015 alone, the domestic summits offered more than 79 sessions with over 135 speakers for approximately 2,100 employees.

Prior to joining Walt Disney Imagineering, Smith served as Vice President of Global Strategies for Diversity and Inclusion for Walt Disney Parks & Resorts. She also served as the Vice President of the Talent Development Programs for the Disney/ABC Television Group.

Smith has received numerous awards and accolades, including several prestigious honors for her work promoting diversification in the television and film industry. In 2007, she received an honorary doctorate from the Metropolitan College of New York. She was also a presenter at the United Nations’ Fourth Non-Governmental Forum on Women in Beijing, China.

A native of New York, Smith graduated from Hunter College with a degree in communication arts, received her master’s in international administration from New York University, and completed the Simmons Graduate School of Management Certificate Program for Developing Managers and the Harvard University Women and Power Executive Education Program at John F. Kennedy School of Government.

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being present, equity, immersive experience, leadership skills, learning environment, theme parks

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